I thought tuna fishing in the fall was supposed to be easier. Not! I went w/ a friend on his Grady Sailfish to the tuna hole. Saw Still Thinking and Black Pearl. Caught 1 40 lb yft at 1:00pm on a RED 3 1/2 " DRONE SPOON on a planer. That was it. The charter boats were less than cooperative that was for sure. We also watched them pound the tuna. Sounds like we were fortunate to get A bite at all.

Something that blew my mind when we got home was what I found in the tuna when I cleaned him. He was chocked FULL of hard crabs about as big as a silver dollar! He had not one squid or baitfish in him and we caught him in the middle of all the porpoises. Kinda hard to match that hatch unless you get a spinning rod and cast some Gulp! Berkley crabs.

This watching the charters load the boat while we "observe" is starting to get old especially when you are pulling the same colors, baits ect... Is it the diesels or electronics or other factors that put us at such a disadvantage? I'd like to hear from everyone on this. Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Jason

glad you got one thats better than we did
and I would like to know the same thing I know they do it for a liveing but that reason gets old.

Some folks think it's the size of the boat -- that the bigger hulls raise more fish -- but I don't know. I've also heard that if you get your twin engines just out of sych while trolling that this also raises fish -- something about the vibrations -- but, again, I don't know.

Iv tryed my motor all the way up and all the way down do you want more bubbles wash or less

While I've often heard the phrase "this boat raises fish", in my opinion it's a matter of some boats scare fish away while others don't. Sound travels underwater as a vibration, just like it does through air. I've always thought that the frequency of the engine noise was a prime concern.
If you're a diver, you've heard different engine noises. Diesels have a very low pitch under water. Inboard gas motors are higher pitched, 4 stroke outboards are even higher and at the top is two stroke outboards and wave runners. I've always felt that the lower the frequency the better because the lower waveform mimic's vibrations from natural causes. Higher frequencies tend to cause alarm. Nothing in nature, except maybe a swarm of killer bees, sounds like a two stroke engine under water.
The props, cutlass bearings and stuffing boxes can also cause vibrations that scare away fish. So can ancillary equipment like bilge and washdown pumps and motors. Especially generators. I ve known some excellent fishermen who used 2 stroke outboards and caught a lot of fish. I think every one of them would have done better with 4 strokes or an inboard. But that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

People could write books about boats that "raise" fish. Here's my OPINION.

Do charter boats catch more fish than private boats or the weekend warriors? Yes, most of the time. Does it have anything to do with their boats fish raising ability? Maybe. One thing that needs to be realized is that charter boats do this for a living. 150-200+ days on the water in a year and you'd be pretty damn good too. Not only do they have more experience than most they also share a network of information b/w the captains and mates that can give them the edge. Just think about it. Let's say you fish one day on a weekend. You might spend the week leading up to it re-rigging, reading reports, etc. They're out there actually doing it. They can see the fish patterns developing long before you can. The only way to learn is spending time on the water. Knowledge comes with experience.

As far as boat's fish raising ability, that's a whole different story. When billfishing do certain boats raise more fish than others? Absofrigginlutely. Do diesel raise more than outboards? Absofrigginlutely. When it comes to meatfish some people will say it doesn't matter whether or not it's a gas or diesel engine. IMO I really don't know, but I'd give the advantage to diesel. Are the engines the only difference? NO. Raising fish is more than the hum of the engines. It can be how the water comes off the hull, generator, synchronizers, trolling valves, your spread, bait, etc. A buddy of mine has 671 Detroits in his boat. The engines had a "whistle" to them at certain RPM's. That boat raised billfish like it was its job. They had the engines rebuilt and don't see half as many fish now. The past couple years I've been on a 60' with 3412 CATs. Engines were quiet and smooth and it brought up a ton of billfish. The boat before that was a 43' with 692 Detroits which is a very popular engine. A lot of boats that I know have them. Some raise fish, some don't. I think that boat only saw 1 blue marlin in 2 summers out of Hatteras.

I could go on and on about boats that raise fish. Look at tournament results. Certain boats are consistently near the top every year, granted so are certian crews.

One thing is for certain though. Most fish are surface feeders. They need that certain "hum" to bring them up from the depths.

I'm done now. Tight lines.

Brian

Yes it was a tough day, at least we didn't raise the skunk flag.When I clean the tuna I had the same crabs,never seen that before.Maybe some sort of spawn going on.

I'm not asking to go out and fish against a charter and keep up w/ him. I know that is what they do and they are good at it. I understand that. What I am saying is that in 2 trips in 3 weeks to OI I have a sailfish and 1 yft for 14 hrs of trolling. Believe me I'm NOT complaining about the sailfish!!!! I would hate to try and estimate just how many tuna I saw caught during those 2 trips , but it was one heck of alot.

When boats like Still Thinking and others who have done this for a while and know the deal and can't get bit... it baffels me. I think it would be reasonable to get 3 to 4 tuna vs the charter boats 15 to 20, but no one is doing it. I just would like to hear ideas and opinions about this so maybe I/we could learn something to better our odds. After the last 2 trips I have learned that fishing is not a very good spectator sport!!!

Take a look at the General Post about the Canyon Runner Seminars. These guys are Charter Pros...but they share their knowledge and give hands on demos! Well worth the $100. We went last year and apply a lot of what we learned. Do we catch more fish now...yes. Do we catch as many as we would like...not yet. We are going back to Canyon Runners again this year. It's part of the game that will help in locating, enticing, catching, playing, and landing quality fish. We had several multiple hook-ups because of what we learned last year, none the previous year. Diesels help I believe.
Tight lines.
Dave

Also, I thought I read that the charter boats were chunking?

Also, I thought I read that the charter boats were chunking?

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didnt see any
was C-Note OI 12/8/07- bottom of the ninth again

I am like JTB I know im not going to catch what the chater boys do are what the the boats like still thinkin and them do but to fish right beside them and try everything still to come up empty is hard to take week after week dont get me wrong i am glad I get the ones that I do I guess it goes to that saying you got to put in your time in so the ones I do get go with the saying even a blind squarl gets a nut every now and then. ok sorry JTB Im done now
thanks for all of yas help

It seems that I got more fish on the other cat but used to troll with one engine off, maybe that was some of the reason that the fish got a different vibration. Any ideas?Golden Horseshoe?

My advice....find the bait/porpoise and you will find the Tuna. Keep working the bait as long as it takes. Don't leave....you can troll for 8 - 10 hours and only need 10 minutes to make the day with a multiple hook up. You can't catch fish when there not there...find the signs and just work it no matter what !...that's what I do...If i'm not marking anything I'm moving...if I'm marking I'm working it....

...Bob

All helpful. Also, don't be afraid to change baits. Swap out for fresh baits even if their not washed out. Do you normally run b/w seawitches long? Make em' shorts and move pinks to long. Move B/W to one side and whatever you want to the other. Drop baits back deep when not in much boat traffic. There are only one or two things on Bob's boat that never come out of the spread. Jig lines.


One thing I can say about Still Thinkin that I am sure Bob will agree with. Otter, myself, Don, and Rockn Robin are always doing something. We don't just put it on auto pilot and hope to run over a mark. Constantly looking at bait, what the spread looks like, other boats, rigging, rerigging, etc.

All great info! Time on the water is in the charter's favor for sure. I think there is something to the sound of the engines...heard it for myself while snorkeling in the Bahamas...hi-pitched whine from outboards.

Like Bob said, marking bait and fish...stay and work it. They will come up to feed at some point. And like Steady added, a spread is not a "set it and forget it" part of fishing. It has to be worked. Change color, change bait size, change distance from the boat.

I also like to have the spread tight to itself, giving the appearance of a larger concentrated ball of bait. A fish is more likely to come up if he can get an easy sahot at a meal. With more baits closer together, his odds improve.

Other things that help...Guns and Roses, Jimmy Buffet, Bob Marley and other fine local groups; power of prayer(last fish we caught came right after saying a boat prayer and saying how nice it is when fishing out of VA Beach to hear Capt David Wright give his sunrise prayer )

Read my Tuna How-To on the vbsf homepage. Might help out some more too.

http://www.vbsf.net/How_To_Index.htm

I have not heard anyone using a kite (Deadley on tunas).Its not one thing its all of it toghter.Hum of the engines ,more rods, larger spread,time on the water,more teasers,crank ons,planers,a mate working the rods, capt working the water.60 to 80lb crank ons a planer with ballyhoo to bring the school up to get the other rods hooked up ,get them in fast and turn around and do it again.

Watch the charter boats closely. Sometime they are pulling everything close, other times they are dropping everything a mile back. They also get very picky about which brand leader they use. I don't know what they're using these days, but find out. Sometimes they don't use a snap, just a barrel swivel. If something small makes a difference they'll figure it out. I remember one day when the Tuna wouldn't hit anything and a charter captain buddy called me on the radio and told me to run some small clark spoons. Bam!!!! but the hooks wouldn't hold up, kept breaking, drove us crazy.

I drives me crazy too. We watched the charter boys do it to it. We tried to look at their spread and see what they were doing, not much different than what I normally see charters doing.

Some were running alot of squid teasers, some had dredges out. It was not like they were all doing the same thing. Just like all the private guys were not all running the same thing.

we fished with the oi fleet a couple weeks ago and had a great day. caught 17 in the 40-50 pound class. early we were getting single hook ups only on the long riggers or wfb shotgun. we then dropped everything wfb and started getting multiple hookups. wind on 100# flouro leaders worked best.

Bob,
May be why Stil Think'n thought they were being targeted, if those guys were running way way way way back and some deep? Or maybe you were right and they were gunning for you.
Dave