I am trying to plan a few offshore trips for september (if the weather allows) and have a few questions.
How fast do you troll for tuna?
Historically, when do they show up for the fall run?
What do you toss to small dolphin under weeds? Bait or lures?
When rigging ballyhoo, do you slide the sea-witch short hair forward or long hair forward?
Fingers or elsewhere?
How long do the amberjacks stick around?

Many thanks for any info.

trolling speed depends on the sea conditions...usually 6.5Kts give or take .5 Kts should work...watch you baits, make sure they're running right and tune your speed in based on what your pulling

The YFT should be showing up soon, temps are coming down, people are starting to catch em again, shouldn't be much longer now

Bailing dolphin most anything fresh will work...Fresh cut Bonita drives em nuts..if you can cast up some fresh menhaden or minows that really works well, cut up ballyhoo will work in a pinch....I used Farm Fresh shrimp I found in the freezer Sunday morning...wife got a bit upset but got over it when we brought home a limit of Mahi...Lures will work for a short time but they will turn off quicker...keep something for them to eat in the water...and keep a dolphin in the water until you done bailing...this keeps the school around behind the boat longer...

When riggin sea-witches..the long hair goes forward...as you pull it through the water it will roll back over the bait..makes it look that much tastier !>.....

Middle to top of the fingers..up through Waynes world to the Norf Canyon...should be good place to start...

Can't help ya on the AJ"s, I don't normally fish for them...I'm sure we've got some wreck donkey experts around the boards though....Good luck....Bob

Thanks for the info.

Prettymuch what I was thinking on all fronts, but I am mostly an inshore geek. A friend is going to bring his boat down this weekend and we will try to get offshore if the weather allows.

How many prerigged ballohoo rigs do you reccommend? I was thinking of having a dozen ?? I have several color combination witches, green machines, cedar plugs, and chugger style lures. I hope to have an assortment of live bait to take as well. Right now I only have 2 dozen croaker. I looked for menhaden today but the water is filthy.

This year there have been zero small menhaden inside Lynnhaven. Usually by mid july the creek is full of them. My guess is that most of the fry were killed by that bitch Katrina.

Guido,
I second what Bob said. Your speed is controled by the action of your baits and the distance the baits are from your boat. Example...if the fish seem to be boat shy and you drop your baits back further in the spread, you'll need to increase your speed to get the same swiming/skipping action on the baits and vice versa.

A dozen rigged ballyhoo is a good start, but we usually have 2 or 3 dozen on the boat. If you get into the tuna or get hit by bonita, you'll run threw hoos quick. Not to mention if they get washed out.

The bite should be getting hot here soon. the boats fishing the Washington Canyon have been scoring 40-50 pound YFT and getting limits. Won't be long before they're down here.

Catch 'em Up!!

--Don

I usually have a dozen medium sized Ballyhoo prerigged in assorted styles, Naked, Sea witches, Islanders, definately a couple of GET REEL LURE Conga Lines or Chuggers. Then I also run two Horse Hoo's on Blue/WHite Islander type lures. My main colors are blue/white, red/white.....then I normally have a dark (black purple or just black) islander for a down bait for Wahoo.....I normally Brine the pre-rigged Hoo really well over night....then have a couple dozen ballyhoo at the least for the rest of the trip....

My normal starting spread is.....Boone Bird with Green Machine wwwb down the middle...two sea witches on the long riggers...Horse Hoo's on the short rigger on islanders, two Rasta rainbow spreader bars inside the short riggers, #6 Planer with some dark colored skirted ballyhoo and of course a Cedar Plug right in the prop wash off the flats......I'll switch up from there....More spreader bars if Tuna Fishing....more naked Split BIlled Ballyhoo if bill-fishing....

Good luck....Bob

At the opposite end of the ballohoo rig, do you crimp a loop or simply tie a surgeons knot to create a loop? If a crimp, one or two?

When using a sea-witch with a weight, I assume that you omit the egg sinker at the hook?

How long a leader for ballyhoo...6 feet?

My offshore experience is slim...3 times several years ago. Sorry for all the questions.

Guido, I use a single crimp at the rod end of the leader. If crimped correctly, it will hold fine. Depending on the line size I may also add a loop protecter. The egg sinker is still important. It not only serves to help the rig run below the surface, but also helps add swimming motion. If a bait swims perfectly straight through the water, it makes less disturbance and the tail moves less. By forcing the bait to swim slightly chin down, the chin weight makes it less streamlined and imparts more motion and vibration to the bait. This is also true of rigged spanish mackeral. And finally for the standard snap swivel setup, I'll make my leaders 10 to 20 feet. I like to keep the snap swivel as far from the bait as possible, and will go to 20 feet when the fish are shy. The wind ons I like to have the swivel on the reel with several wraps on the spool when trying to gaff or release the fish, so about 15 feet is what I use. Hope this helps. Tight lines.

George

I have been using two crimps as a safety margin - especially when I'm using the really heavy leader stuff - like 300lb. Is there any disadvantage to that you are aware of?

Charlie..I use double crimps on 400# leaders also...makes me feel better.....Bob

I agree with both of you. I specifically mentioned the rod end of the rig with the single crimp. Nothing wrong with double crimping that end. I just feel the less hardware at the leader/line connection point, the less likely it is to spook a fish. And I always test my crimps anyway, just like you guys, right? Guys?....test crimps?.....right?....oh well. I should have gone a step further in my explaination. Starting at about 200 lb test, I double crimp the hook end. Depending on the lure I may actually use the second crimp to help me position the hook in the lure. As the crimp is too big to go back through the lure head, by spacing two crimps a couple of inches apart, I can move the hook back in the skirt. Especially for billfish, I feel having the hook at the back end of the skirt is critical to the hookup ratio. Tight lines.

I double crimp the hook end on some of my lure rigs like Marlin maniac said, so I can position the hook where I want it in the skirt. Here's a pic...

This way I can have the hook inside the skirt or have it just outside the skirt. The other end is just single crimped to form a loop.

To test the crimp, like George mentioned...on a loop crimp, take a large hook, like 10/0 or bigger, something you can get your hand on. Carefully put it in the loop and then take a couple of wraps on the leader you crimped and pull the leader and the hook in opposite directions as hard as you can. If testing the hook end crimp, put the hook on secure nail or dowel and pull the leader as hard as you can(make sure the nail or whatever you put the hook around is really secure or you'll end up with a hook in the face )

Many thanks to all who replied. Lots of good info.

I've only fished offfshore a few times and I spent as much time as possible looking over the mates shoulder as he prepped the rigging and performed the leader / gaff work.

I've also looked a bit at this site and others for hints. What is usually omitted are the dirty little details that really make a difference in the way stuff works, but you guys are hitting this well and I appreciate it.

I bought a large selection of eggs...what weight do you usually use at the hook?

The last two times I was out on a OI charter, the mate left the eyes in the ballyhoo. Many sites I have seen remove the eyes although they do not explain why. They also use a fairly complicated method of wiring the ballyhoo on the hook which seems a bit cumbersome to me. Is it really necessary? We used a short (1 inch or so) length of stiff wire in the hook crimp. The wire was bent 90 degrees and pushed up through the head of the ballyhoo. A small rubberband was then looped over the protrouding wire and wrapped a few times around the head. The seawitch covered the whole mess up.

We also did not cut a slit in the BH where the hook protroudes...the hook just stuck right out of his belly. Squish the crap out of him, bust his nose and he's over the side. It was quick, simple and we caught a ton of fish that day. Any thoughts?

Needless to say I am trying to milk this for all I can!

Rubber bands are good for a while. You'll pull the hook through the ballyhoo quicker just using a rubber band though, they won't last as long in the water. You can use either wire (which is usually why they poke the eyes out) or I use a cone spiral type device which basically screws over the wire you push through the ballyhoo's head. It's hold the hook tighter to the fish and doesn't allow the line to pull on the hook which is what usually messes up your bait. That's for my skirted baits....naked baits you wanna use the wire and poke the eyes out. do a google on split bill ballyhoo on how to rig nakeds...

The Egg sinker is usually about 1 ounce or so, just something to give the bait some movement in the water and keep it down a little bit.

The slit you cut behind the hook let's the fish swim a bit more natually and prevents some ripping of the baits belly...it's pretty quick and does allow the bait to last a bit longer,...

Don't forget to brine your bait up the night before or while running out to the fishing grounds, makes em last alot longer......Bob

Before you press the crimp burn the tip of the tag end mono,keeping the flame away from main line,blow out flame and press it against something hard to give it a larger tip. Then pull out the slack up to the crimp.Then press the crimp.That way even if the crimp does slip you wont lose your fish.As for the Ballyhoo I pre rig a couple dozen the night before if I have time, If I do I leave them all natural with the tips of the leaders left untied.That way If one color is working best I just slide the Islander(whatever) on and crinp it to the wind on set up ,if not crimp on a loop.That way you get maximum versitility out of a dozen or so baits. I also lay the baits on Ice with a towell (Stainless tray Optional)over the ice.Then sprinkel Kosher salt mixed with Baking soda to hold color and tuffen up the hoos. I use two types of baits Skipping baits(no chin weight at all) and swimming baits with chin weights.The skipping baits have been working really well when flying fish are around.

One other thing I forgot to mention,Trolling speed for Marlin(Whites) I like the 4.5 to 6 Knot speed the best.It varys from boat to boat,I like the boat to have as much clear water behind the boat as possible Outboards put yout trim tabs up and the motor down ,that way you can see that the dredges are in clean water and your flats dont have to play hide and seek with the bubbles all day.A bait inside the prop wash is hard for a fish to see,if your dredge is in that area it is worthless also. For Tuna I will go faster but my lines are much further back so it doesent have the propwash problem.

I was just down in NC fishing YFT on Friday, and the guys were using 80-120# mono (Flourocarbon) leaders to get the fish to bite. REALLY light stuff and we ended up loosing a few fish on what I thought was pretty light line.
Then again, back in the day, we used wire and caught plenty of YFT and rarely lost the hoo's.
I was wondering what leader size everyone was using. I normally go with 20' +/- leader, but in OI the guys were using a planer (#10 I think) and cranking it with about 100' of this really light leader.
I have also seen and heard good success with guys pulling spoons deep through schools of yellowfin, kind of like with stripers. Usually Stainless spoons.

From the responses above, the majority or using spreader bars, Hawiian Eyes, and nakeds, and cedar plugs. Sounds like the chin weight is pretty key too.
First post for me on this board. Thanks.

what do yo mean by "brine" your baits up the night before??

Ktrain,
Brining is the use of a salt/baking soda mix or you can also by bait brine to put on ballyhoo or any trolled bait to help it hold up better in the water. Some baits can get mushy and brine helps that. Don't over brine thoug or you'll baits will be like rocks!!

caryman, Welcome to the board!! I've heard of the NC boys doing the same with long leaders and trolling spoons deep. Very successful for them.

I usually use between 100 and 150 pound mono and about 10 feet of it as leader. That is usually attached to the clear leader on the rod via snapswivel up to 30 feet. I do this within IGFA rules incase of one day catching a world record and also many tourneys require leaders to be within IGFA regs. Saying that, the OI Tuna Tourney last year let you use longer leaders then what IGFA allows since most of the charter boats down there use the long leaders. They're worried about boating fish, not records.

If you use a double line leader with a Spider Hitch or a Bimini Twist IGFA will allow up to 40 feet (over 20# Test) The Double line cant exceed 30 feet and the leader 10 feet.I think single line leaders can be 30 feet long.

Thanks for the responses. We used to brine baits alot when I was working in SC, sometimes as easy as morton's salt and some seawater with a bunch of ice overnight.

Kosher Salt seems to work best to tuffen up the hoos.Baking Soda holds the color.Formulin also works but the new stuff on the market works great also its called BioBrine.Thaw the hoos slowly in the fridge the afternoon before your trip then brine themafter they are fully thawed.With the lower Quality of baits these days this preping is even more important.

found this link looks like it may work pretty good..............

http://www.salmonuniversity.com/ol_brining_herring.html

Yeh you can have 30' double line or 30' leader, but the combo of the 2 can't be more than 40 ' from the start of the double line to the end of the hook. For pound test up to and including 20# its 15' with combined not more than 20'.

Used to visit a place called the Fish Hawk in Atlanta Georgia. The guy who owned the shop named Gary caught a 1600+ lb pacific blue marlin that would have been a world record out of Hawaii, but his leader was about 2 ft too long. That has stuck with me since I was 15 yrs old.
Thanks for all the feedback for a new member!!!!