In the market for a 23 to 26 foot CC or WA. Some of the forum's I've read say ANGLER is NOT a good choice, are there any other's to avoid. What about outboards to avoid. My $ is limited and have been looking at the late 80's early 90's Grady's and Hydra-Sports.

both grady and hydrosport are first class boats.i have owned an angler and agree stay away.

A very small tell-tell sign about a boat builders attention to the boats quality and durability is its hardware, cleats ect. Look for 316 grade stainless steel. It usually signals quality workmanship throughout the manufacturing process. Be prepared to pay a bit more for a well built boat, new or used. In the long run you will be glad you did. The saltwater environment is harsh.

Thats why I was not impressed with that new 26 foot Buddy Davis.The deck creeked as walked across it.The hatch covers were thin didnt fit well and had cheep hinges.

Here's a few words on stainless steel and saltwater.......

COPY: "Most all stainless is fine for fresh water.

I recall a metallurgist-type who posted a table of the different grades
of stainless steel and in what environments they could safely be used.

I looked into this question in some detail. I did post some
results but I didn't save them.

The fundamental problem is that stainless steel is so generic a term
as to be useless. There are litlerially hundreds of alloys that contain
very different compositions.

However if you call up your local metal dealer chances are good
that they will only have two types of stainless steels. Both
are 3XX series which (in laymans terms ) means that they are mostly iron,
with just enough chromium and nickel added to make them corrosion
resistant. I'm sorry that I don't remember the number of the cheaper
one (30 something) but the better one is Alloy 316. The cheaper stainless is
totaly unsuitable for saltwater, and you will see rust if you
leave it near saltwater for very long.

The cheap (hence common) grades of stainless fair very poorly in
saltwater. They are primarly iron with smaller amounts of chromium
and nickel (5-25% or so). It is common to find that
all kinds of other things are added to the alloy in <=1-2% quantities for
magical metalurgical reasons. Tungsten, Copper, Molybedeum, Titanium,
Cobalt are a few of the more common things."

http://bosunsupplies.com/StainlessInfo2.cfm

I really appreciate all the input. There are so many different brands of boats out there and you can't get the right information from any broker, to them all boats are fine, when it puts money in there pockets. This will be my first salt water boat and want it to last.

What about outboards? In a couple of post the Yamaha 4 strokes are receiving negative feedback as well. I don't think, with the money I have to spend that my boat will be equipped with 4 strokes, but it the event I have to re-power.

The better the stainless the less magnetization it has. Submarine Quality is the best in the world and has 0 Mag.I think the Germans produce some of the best .Three excillent boats are produced 20 minutes away from Elizabeth City in Edenton NC.the boats are all great boats Albemarle,Carolina Classic and My favorite Regulator.You can tour the factorys of all 3 Companies I think,I went on the Regulator Tour.These boats are in the paper used all the time.

Regulator is a great boat, several years ago I use to fish with Owen Maxwell on his company demo boat. The last time I fish with him was in the Uairways offshore tourny out of Hatteras. I think Bluewater Yachts in Hampton is the local dealer.

Yep,Bluewater out of Hampton sells them.That is the reason why i didnt buy one because they are so far north.In order to get service or if I had a problem it would be a 50 mile drive one way.I live 23 miles from the place where I got my Seacraft and thats enough for me. I would like to get my hands on a used 32 foot regulator and put Twin Honda 225 `s on it.

The Carolina Classic 25 is actually my boat of choice and have found a few that hopefully with a little negotiation would be with in my $ range. But what about the I\O drives, aren't these more trouble than there worth especially used. At the boat show all the new Classic’s are straight inboards and according to the dealer the company did this change because of customer complaints. That’s why I have shy’ed away from them. I really like Regulator's, Fountains, YellowFins and Contender also especially with the twin outboard set-up. I always keep an eye out for one but it’s hard to find one under 30K. Again, thats so much for the input's.

if u can get thbe cc25 with a volvo 350 and the duo props go 4 it

The Seal team gave Fountain the Boot years ago because he wouldnt work to their specs,they didnt hold up to their abuse.Now they have their own marine services. YellowFin never returned my calls when I was looking,so I didnt get much info on them,they look nice though.I like the Contender they are nice boats.Seacraft quit making inboard boats because of all the problems they were having also.Shaft driven boats ride better than outboard boats because the weight is centered in the boat better,in rough seas shaft driven boats have more rudder to work with also.If you hit something or run aground you can run into a real expensive problem.Shafts,struts and larger props and rudders can all get damaged.They are more vunerabel getting on and off a trailer also.If wou live in a place where you can keep the boat in the water Id go with a shaft driven boat.If you plan to trailer Id go with outboard.Palmetto,Mirage and SeaVee with the 24.5 deg hull are also nice boats.

Fishing VA,
I have a 23' 1991 Celebrity WA Cuddy with a 200 HP Yamaha. I will be more than happy to show it to you. I posted a topic under Anything goes about it(http://vbsf.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=103 ) . You can call me at 757-435-9479 anytime. I will be transfering soon and that is why I am selling it. Weather you are interested on my boat or not, there are a couple of factors that you should consider. First and foremost, safety, followed by price, fishability, if thats your cup of tea, and keep in mind that storage is not cheap around here. I belong to a neighborhood association and they are a pain in the _ _ _!!, so I can't keep it at the house. I keep it on base for $20 a month, but I know that out in town is quite expensive. Also the bigger, the more fuel and oil. Think of maintenance $$$.
I know that I'm not alone when I agree with the age old saying "BOAT= Bring out another Thousand"
Good Luck!!!

Spaniard,

Thanks for the information and offer, but if I go with an outboard setup I want twins for that extra insurance for gulf stream runs. I'm with you about the "BOAT= Bring out another Thousand" especially with a used boat. As far as storage you bring up a whole new topic. I actually live in Charlottesville and have a place to keep a trailerable boat but by the time I pay for gas trailering the boat to\from it might be cheaper to keep the boat at a Marina. Bell Isle Marina in Hampton claims $65 month if you keep your boat on a trailer. I really haven't investigated all the Marina's quite yet. Anyway, again thanks for your information and good luck in selling your boat.

Long Bay point has a place.

If you decided to leave it on your trailer may I suggest checking with our sponsor "Long Bay Pointe Bait and Tackle" they have a nice fenced lot beside their Shore Drive location. They are 30 seconds from the Lynnhaven ramp.

(757) 481-7517

http://www.longbaypointebaitandtackle.com/

Something else to think about when shopping for a used boat, boats that have been left overboard and neglected for a while can have major hull problems (have it checkout by someone that knows what to look for). Boats that have been trailered seem to be a better bit. Boats that are kept in the water are fine as long as they have had the proper care. Twin outboards are great for offshore if you got the cash for them and the fuel. I have a friend that likes a single, a nice VHF and a good tow policy . Dosn't hurt to have a REAL GOOD friend to run with either, One thats willing to give up a days fishing to tow you in. It's a lot cheaper.

"Seacraft quit making inboard boats because of all the problems they were having also."
First time I have ever heard that, i know they made them for at least 6 years- My seacraft is 28 years young and hopefully will be around for many more years to come. they did make an i/o jackshaft that was only around for a couple of years in which there were some universal joint problems.If you want to check out classic seacrafts go to classicseacraft .com. most of the older boats you will find (any brand) that have either outboards or i/o's will have some transom rot or at the least water intrusion form stuff like transducer or trim tab install where holes were drilled that were not properly sealed. (I/O bolts, Trim rings around outboards also) Older makos are great boats but are prone to soft decks as well as old wellrafts (v-20's were nice boats) and i always have an eye out and preference for used blackfins ( other old classic hulls that i like are berts,shamrocks and formulas (rotted stringer problems in these boats,not too bad to replace though, i fish from one often)- anyways if you but a used boat- spend the money and get a survey done , well worth the money and you will know exactly what you are getting into- my.02$-

you might want to check out the concept fishing boats.designed like the fountain, regulators etc. etc. no wood lifetime hull warrenty. mine has the twin 225 optis and i like it so far. not much of a cold weather boat but i havent seen many cc that are.

vbsfipb,

Thanks for the Marina information. I actually like that location much better.

I do plan on getting a Marine Survey done on my boat. The service proved it self to a friend who almost purschase an Albemarle in FL that to look at it you would have never have know the stringers/transom had rot issues. Again, thanks for the information.

Concepts are really nice. There are so many boats. I also like Dusky's but don't know anyone who has owed one. Pursuit is another nice looking boat but don't know anything about. That's kinda why I've narrowed my search to Grady's and Hydra Sports. Friends of the past have owned them and have had relatively good luck with them. However, I'm not limiting myself. Thanks.

Hey Cool,I wasnt putting I/O Seacrafts down,but they dont make them any more just outboards,when I called them to make sure thats what they said.Yes BlackFins are really nice boats.I ran one from Lynnheaven Inlet to stuart Florida .I got caught in some nasty weather off Diamond shoals if it were a lot of other boats I wouldnt be here telling the story.It was the 25CC with a nice Tuna Tower with controlls,It was shaft driven with a Cat diesel it had a small cuddy up front enough to sleep 2.

Is BlackFin still in business? I have seen a few that did interest me, one in particular was a 1979 hull 25' Combi, however when I googled them I found a few survey reports and one had this quote.

"The one major fault I found was the fuel tank installation, which has always been a problem for Blackfin. The aluminum tank is set very deep in hull on a plywood foundation and almost certainly corrode and fail over time. How long that will take, no one can predict. But the only good news is that the tank is rather easily gotten out and replaced."

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/blackfin_29_combi.htm

Maybe I read to much into this stuff.

Blackfin molds were acquired i believe i read recently by another company and i dont remember who. the thing about aluminum gas tanks in old boats is they all go bad in older boats- especially ones kept in the water. if there are some that dont then they are by far the exception (maybe they dont in freshwater- but then again other than the great lakes I dont think you will see too many blackfins in fresh water,lol. There are some hulls called Kranda that are pre-blackfin hulls, really nice too- there is one with a new motor,tranny, fueltanks and wiring in the neighborhood I keep my boat- (boat was sunk in 95) i believe you can get it for a song. 23 center console with a small cuddy, teak washboard halfway around the stern and up the sides. Hey Keith- no problem- i get a little ansey about my boat,lol-especially as popular as the old potter hulls are. btw- mine is a straight Inboard- no outdrive. be careful about who you talk too at sc- a bunch of corporate idiots although i understand they recently took on two managers that know boats a lot more than there predessors(sp). those old 25's are fairly rare, i have never ridden one although i would like to.

Cool B. you have a sweet boat if it is shaft driven.Is the motor under the console like the Blackfin?

Stamas is a good boat if you can find any around here. I have a 1966 26' cuddy. It is an I/O, Volvo-Penta, its the only way to go I/O. The hull is 5/8" thick hand laid glass from the waterline down, good solid boat. Between what I paid for the boat and what I have put into it my total investment is less then $18,000. When I got the boat it was in working order, just a little tired, and I ran it for a year and a half as it was. Then in 2002 I did a major overhaul. I put a new mpfi volvo 8.2 415hp with a duoprop, trim tabs, seats, tackle station, two under deck fuel cells (160 gals combined), gauges and new wiring. I basicly have a 3yr old boat now that is offshore capable with a hull that I'd stack up against those kevlar hulls the navy abuses. There are a few good used boats that are newer like the ones mentioned above and I agree with what everyone is saying. However, The newer boats don't have the room like my Stamas. Square footage speaking my boat has as much as a 32' Albemarle and if I look at it that way I saved about $150,000. That sure pays for alot of trips to the canyon. I'm sure I'll see you out there. Good luck.

TP- sounds really nice dude- how about a couple of pix??? Friend of mine used to live on Bay Island had I believe it was a 25 stamas- like you said- tons of room!!! Hey kieth, mine is shaft driven- motor under the console- not for the timid in tight spaces though!!!!

This is a picture of her in 2002 just after the reno. What do you think? Also the beam on her is over 9'.

Nice,It looks similar to the old Almond,Formula and Searay from that Era.They didnt know how thin you could make a fiberglass hull back then.

Here is what I found out on Blackfins.

"Blackfin Yachts were yachts created, mindful of value, in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The company that produced the yachts was Blackfin Yacht Corporation, which filed for bankruptcy in 1997 and eventually closed its doors. Blackfin’s manufacturing history started in 1973 with intent to build excellent offshore fishing yachts. Blackfin models ranged from the Blackfin 23 to the Blackfin 40, in styles such as flybridge, combi, and open lines. Fiberglass with the highest industry level of hand-laid laminate was chosen for Blackfin, and the yachts were built to semi-custom specifications. The manufacturing facility for Blackfin yachts allowed quality to be standardized throughout the yacht family. Salt Shaker Marine was pleased to acquire some of the Blackfin molds and produced two Blackfin 29s in 2001."

Carl Herndon the former CEO\Owner of Blackfin now ownes Jupiter Marine and acquired Pheonix Marine in 2000 see link below.

http://www.wavesf.com/wave-online-issues/W2/W2_60.php

Just some fun research on a lazy day.

TP- very nice !!! is that Imron or awlgrip paint job???? What about the top,lol- have you put a t-top on it yet or left it as is??? really very nice, what else did you do during the restoration???? fuel tanks,wiring, etc????

In 2002 everything mechanical and electrical came out and was replaced. In essence she is now a 2002/1966 Stamas. The fuel system was completly redone as well, tanks and lines. The seats and tackle stations were fabricated and installed. Guages and electronics were done at the helm station, even the steering wheel. Shortly after this picture I installed 22' outriggers and a huge Icytek cooler on the swim platform. (Purchased from our sponsor, thanks guys for the good deal, still love it) The hull from the rubrail down was attended to. She had some blisters underneath that were ground out, filled and faired. I sanded, faired and painted the hull. The paint is actually Silithane, rolled and tipped it myself, the color is actually called "Titty Pink." The bottom was finished with two coats primer, two coats barrier, two coats hard black anti-foul and two coats blue ablative. Had a marine survey done after the work that came in at $28,500.

Currently I am working on getting that bimini replaced with a tower. Got off the phone with my best friend and found out he just got a mig welder so I think we are going to attempt it ourselves. The learning curve alone should be well worth some good stories for you guys to laugh at. Also I am getting new cushions made for the cabin. I also plan on installing two down riggers, thinking about going electric, I think I'll start a thread on that whole issue.

the color is actually called "Titty Pink."

LOL- very nice !!!!! if you can weld aluminum good , you will probably save a wad of cash!!!

I would hate to see what they call Blue.Nice paint job on the old T.P.That old boat has a bullet proof structure.

TP- That's is a nice looking boat. Never thought of going that route, picking up an older boat and re-doing it. Got me thinking??????????????

I llok at it this way. Whether you purchase a new or used boat you will always modify it to your liking, to suit what you do. Buying a used boat you will almost always be buying someone elses headaches. That was one of the deciding factors for me. So I got a boat I new needed work, but had a solid hull, that I could get for a song. It takes some time and sweat to get it done but the savings in your pocket are worth every penny.

I would like to thank everyone for there time and input on this thread. I gained alot of good information. Thanks again.

Tickled Pink--very nice looking boat. I'm planning to move up from my 18' Grady to something I can take offshore and I'm going to be looking for something used, but well cared for in the 24-26' range. (Can't afford a new Grady that size). What you've done with yours is an inspiration.

NJ1 Let me know if I can help you find something or look at something you have found. Patients is key it took me about two years to find my girl.

You do have a nice looking boat... I'd like to see it up close sometime.

Thanks guys on all the comps. It definately has been an on going labor of love.

I saw a nice old Seacraft near the OceanPark area of ShoreDrive the Other Day.

Thanks Tickled Pink, I appreciate the offer. By the way, if you come across something that looks good, drop me a line. I've got about 30K in my current boat, and think I'll realistically be able to get 20-25K out and can swing another 20 or so, so prob. looking in the 40-50 range. My wife says it's got to have a head..I just want more room to fish and dual outboards for safety offshore.

Naved

I check this site out for boats at a bargain. Some of the boats are damaged but there are some that are on the block for storage leins and liquidation.

USauction.com

not sure if you want to go used but i do know of a nice blackfin for sale for i think 16,500. hasnt been run much at all- basically a new motor, gas tank(small though) wiring etc- center console with a small cuddy- i know the guy that owns it and he keeps it behind his house across the street from my boat in lynnhaven colony- just a thought-